Curse

killress · Feb 22, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esoteric Mesmer

First off let my start by saying that I do think Ursan is a noob skill. It takes no skill whatsoever to use, and anyone can run it. I have not even bothered to do the quest to get the skill with any of my characters because it is a waste of time, and I know I would never use it.

So why do I support Ursan? The reason for this is its simplicity, which makes it ideal for 50%-75% of the Guild Wars playing population. Let me further explain this with an example of the typical human Guild Wars group I tend to get in with my Mesmer or necro. *Disclaimer- These are NOT the builds I run, nor am criticizing any particular class, just the way people manage to screw those classes up* Here is the typical human group I seem to end up in when none of my friends/guildies are on, and I have to find a random group for a mish.

The group finally zones into to the mission after waiting 20 mins for someone to figure out their build. Then after another 5 mins of waiting for that one person to load, the w/mo is itching for a fight. So what does that sword wielding w/mo cast before going into battle? Mending! Yes, our faithful tank put on mending and rushed in eager to start doing what he believes to be some devastating AoE damage with hundred blades. But wait! The ele just ran ahead of the tank because the only elite they have is double dragon. So now one of the monks with his black obby armor and chaos gloves (how unique!) spends all his energy healing the ele, as the tank dies he starts screaming at the obby monk. However, the obby monk is pinging his energy at 1 of 23, and has somehow managed to lower his total energy. Now, you might ask what the other monk is doing while this is going on. While to my horror he just cast SoJ on himself, and with his beloved totem axe/grim cesta rushes into battle, not taking into account that unlike the trolls outside of droks, these enemies have enchant removals. All of his 55 health doesn’t last long, and he is taking a dirt nap with the tank and ele.

So my point here is Ursan compensates for the previously stated stupidity that is prevalent in Guild wars. Ursan allows those that have no clue whatsoever, to not drive the more experienced players insane. Its inherent simplicity makes it so when I want to do DOA with my monk, I can, because I know those 5 human ursans have less of a chance of screwing up with their premade build. Ursan has personally made my life a lot easier, because it compensates for stupidity. So I am in strong support Ursan not be nerfed, and if anything made more powerful.

Those in support of Ursan (for others) feel free to add your thougts.

I completely agree. I like Ursan, and I like the idea of Ursan. However, I don't like its effect on the economy. Ectos, Shards, Etc. are drastically dropping in price, as are most rare/valuable items. Other than that, i <3 Ursan, and makes Mending Wammos into a useful addition to the team.

My Lipgloss is Cool · Feb 22, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Not really. For one, the "steel wall" build is tailored for the Deep, while UB can be used anywhere.

I just used Steel Wall as an example...Every high end area has it's builds; So instead of running a bunch of different builds that make places easy, you run one build that makes places easy. Either way, you clear 'difficult' areas with ease.

xDusT II · Feb 23, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

I just used Steel Wall as an example...Every high end area has it's builds; So instead of running a bunch of different builds that make places easy, you run one build that makes places easy. Either way, you clear 'difficult' areas with ease.

Steel Wall or any other methods of tank'n'spank were probably the most common (Although far from the most efficient) way of clearing elite missions. The basic idea was to just ball up enemies on a few targets then nuke them accordingly and proceed on.
Although I never considered it a very "skillful" way of clearing elite areas, in comparison to the Ursan groups we have now, it was miles ahead.
At least in tank'n'spank you were still limited by your character and your skill bar. Your skill choices/usages could have consequences and if you played poorly you would most likely fail. Ursanway is nothing like this. You use 1 skill then go ape shit spamming skills on the closest enemy to you. You do not need to worry about poor play or skill usage because you have an extra 200 Health and 20 Armour buffer to soften up any mistakes you make.
In essence it's made tank'n'spank redundant, because now those same groups don't have to worry about anything that at least made tank'n'spank remotely skillful to win the game.

Bryant Again · Feb 23, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

Either way, you clear 'difficult' areas with ease.

Again, the skill is setting up the build and in harder areas organization. It's not that the area is being "plowed through with ease," but that people are using one of the solutions to the area.

capblye · Feb 23, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I don't think UB was put in place so much to make sales on the expansion as it was to offer something new and different in terms of what we have seen before - such as the avatar forms in Nightfall. The blessings are just the next logical step in that direction. However, the update that allows level 10's to access EotN can most certainly be attributed to your theory.

Hanok Odbrook

Well, you may not think so, but we all know from reading Gaile's Posts, and changes that have been made in the past to GW that they DO Listen to the players requests.
With that noted, is it such a far reaching idea that they added those sets of skills (Ursan, Wolfen, Raven) intentionally to draw a casual player who has no interest in building skill bars for areas?
I know i've read posts on here and the multitude of other GW forums that have plenty of players complaining about the skills and how there isnt a catch all build they can use for general PVE play.

I dont think it's a stretch of the imagination at all to believe that these skills were added to TARGET that player set, thereby making that player set want to purchase the ONLY place in the game that skill can be acquired.

Your point of Anet changing access from Lvl 20 to Lvl 10 doesnt just add credibility to my point, it is evidence of the point.

If you dont think it went down that way, thats ok, i have a bridge for sale you might be interested in!

So, ... i read through all the new posts every couple of days or so, and i see all the L33T players who love creating builds and love PUG's decrying this skill set, and i cant help but chuckle because figuratively, they are talking to a wall.

They can all piss and moan til their purple in the face, and debate all night long in flame contests about how badly Ursan is effecting GW's economy, game ethics, PUG's ... and anything else you can think of to blame Ursan for.
Simple fact is, ANet isnt going to do a damn thing about it ... yet.

Will Anet nerf Ursan?
Maybe somewhere down the line. Probly right around the time GW2 launches.

Why not sooner you ask?
Because they still stand to make plenty of money off of the casual GW gamer with EoTN, and it would be silly for them to make it LESS attractive. Why shoot themselves in the wallet for a small, core group of players.
Just bad business.
And ... lest we forget boys and girls ... they are a Business first.

Bryant Again · Feb 23, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

Why not sooner you ask?
Because they still stand to make plenty of money off of the casual GW gamer with EoTN, and it would be silly for them to make it LESS attractive. Why shoot themselves in the wallet for a small, core group of players.
Just bad business.
And ... lest we forget boys and girls ... they are a Business first.

That actually makes me a bit hopeful, in the good sense. When something starts to get "outdated," per say, then they remove that which made the purchase exclusive. In the form of Factions it was a materials storage, in NF it was insignia armor. We (or I, at least, heh) can only hope for the best.

Sab · Feb 23, 2008, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

I don't think UB is the perfect solution to any of the problems in GW, but at least it opens up more opportunities for players to play through and experience other parts of the game that they normally would not be able to experience, and be able to become better players as a result of it - if they so choose. An unfortunate side effect is that the poor player can also benefit from this, but as the old saying goes, I would rather ten criminals go free than to convict one innocent man.

Think about why people use Ursan:

- To finish one-off missions like Vanquisher/Guardian, in which case it may be too difficult or time-consuming with normal builds. If these people actually wanted to learn, they wouldn't be running Ursan in the first place. I doubt they'd get Vanquisher or Guardian a second time with a normal build.

- To farm, in which case in some areas it's the most efficient, brainless build with the least chance of failure. There's no reason for these players to change builds when farming is all about efficiency.

Wiki provides enough information, such as mob skill bars and mob composition, for players to make a decent group build. For those who do want to learn, they can learn far more from Wiki than they can from Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

In terms of devaluing, it's not really how many, but how fast. Be it one or one hundred ways - it's really the same to me, it just happens all the quicker with the more options that you have. Just like Survivor, be it just the double XP weekends or that coupled with the Kilroy dungeon, it doesn't really matter - to me it is just as devalued with one as it is with both. At least with more options you can pick your own cup of tea so to speak. Really - if some of these areas are supposed to be hard, then why can a solo or dual team build farm some them with little difficulty - with as much skill as the typical UB player needs?

I don't know of solo or dual teams which can even be compared to Ursan, in terms of overall power. I explained the difference between Ursan and other gimmicks before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

And that's really what this all boils down to. What kinds of options can we give to the players that allow...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

The problem we run into here, then is what is the definition of an exploit. Certainly one can exploit...

You went off on a tangent, arguing points which has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

One point of contention first - Actually I have found SF and my Pyro to work quite well in fire resistant areas like the RoF. Fire resistant foes still suffer burning and still run from AoE affects, and I have found both to often work better than the typical solution of bringing water magic skills.

If you want to argue specifics, then: Destroyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

But really, isn't the point of Build Experimentation (finding the most ideal build to suit an area - i.e. gimmick) a form of exploiting in and of itself? Isn't that the whole idea of BE - to "exploit" the weakness and defects of the enemy and it's AI? Therefore, shouldn't a player who takes a less viable build into an area be deserving of better rewards for success than the player to fine tunes to the perfect build since the first player was able to succeed against a more difficult scenario?

Recognizing a threat - then countering that threat, is fundamentally what this genre is about. Build-making just happens to be GW's way of doing this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

You're a also bit off base with your last statement. Again, "exploits" like running have been around long before UB, and titles have been getting devalued even before Nightfall came out. And you can't argue the fact that with or without UB, that the "elite" players devalue such area status when they hand over (either for free or gold) some high end item to a player who did not "obtain" it in the "regular way."

The value of items (both the perceived value and the trade value) has more to do with its rarity rather than the number of bad players who have them. 14/15% unconditionals, for example, are both expensive and highly desired, even though anyone with enough money can get one (if they can find one for sale these days). Instead of circulating rare items only around the "elite", the "elite" are happy as long as the items remain rare and thus the prices remain high. So trading, which by itself does not make an item numerically more common, would not have much of an impact on either the trade value or the perceived value.

N1ghtstalker · Feb 23, 2008, 09:35 AM // 09:35

skilled players that don't want to use Ursan can't get a team (like me) cuz i refuse to use Ursan in any way and therefore a good team is not easily to find

skanvak · Feb 23, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

The point with a skill is that it should not become "I don't want to use it because it change the way I play the game". That why UB should be tweak to stay powerfull but become a normal skill that can be included in a team build.

Actually, each additionnal Ursan is plus for a group, it replace any proffession in most team build. I think that it should not be the case. A balanced ursan will see group with one or two ursan and other think. we will see team with 1 UB, 1 wolf, 1 raven (those elite are all pve elite so should be on par with UB) and so on.

The real problem is that this transformation last forever or so. No other transformation has this potential (including raven). I keep thinking that this is the problem. pass the degen a -3 stackable with other degen. That will make ursan difficult to use without making it smashing power any less.

the_jos · Feb 23, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Think about why people use Ursan:
- To finish one-off missions like Vanquisher/Guardian .....
- To farm....

I know several other reasons:
- To get easy access to that one elite area they could not get into before because of PUG mentality and no access to guild/alliance groups.
- To speed up things like vanq/guardian/dungeons because they want a lot of maxed titles on several characters instead of one. Speed, not only by faster clearing but also by much faster teaming when doing something unorganised.
- Because they want to have fun playing a different 'role' while not compromising the team when playing HM for some title. For example, I know several of our guild monks play UB now because they are bored of healing/protting all the time and smiting is just meh.

I'm talking about people who know their profession(s) by heart and are more than capable to finish even the hardest areas of the game with a normal build.

Writing the things above, I do realise they all can be translated to three words: Hall of Monuments.
I doubt they would play UB often (besides as effective farming tool) without the titles and statues.

Abonai Laguna · Feb 23, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

screw ursan.

Dark Paladin X · Feb 24, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

If you guys have a choice between paragon or warrior for ursan, which is the best and why. I prefer paragon for this because their echoes will not disappear when you use the blessing and can be maintained with ursan roar.

Hanok Odbrook · Feb 24, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Think about why people use Ursan:

- To finish one-off missions, ....

- To farm, ....

Wiki provides enough information, such as mob skill bars and mob composition, for players to make a decent group build. For those who do want to learn, they can learn far more from Wiki than they can from Ursan.

This is just a generalization of what you perceive players using UB to be - as the_jos pointed out. Quite frankly, there are probably many reasons why - including the fact that people actually do want to learn and use UB to do so, then go about getting Vanq or Guard with a "normal" build. With farming - isn't that kind of the idea to begin with? To find the most efficient build with the least chance of failure. Isn't that why botting is so successful - there were plenty of those prior to UB. Overall power is really pointless to this discussion - if we're talking about exploits, then a solo or dual team in an area that is not supposed to be designed for it is as much of an exploit as UB, regardless of the sum total of offensive damage either one can put out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook
And that's really what this all boils down to. What kinds of options can we give to the players that allow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook
The problem we run into here, then is what is the definition of an exploit. Certainly one can exploit...

You went off on a tangent, arguing points which has nothing to do with what you quoted.

Redux:
If it's not, then why bother making *hard* mode?
Things like SF and HM were added to the game to give players something more to do after they finished one chapter and while they were waiting for the next. HM especially was created for those who felt the game up to that point was not challenging enough. Again, it gets back to how you want to enjoy the game.

Someone who exploits can gain an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't, but why should the one who doesn't exploit, care?
... how does Ebaying affect you personally?
Technically, UB is not an exploit - the skill is being used exactly how it was designed. In terms of Gold Farming and things like eBaying - that hurts the bottom line profitability of the developer and publisher, so actually falls outside of the in-game definition of "exploit." Personally speaking, again, people who eBay or play the game differently have thus far no bearing on my experience of the game or the satisfaction I get from playing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

If you want to argue specifics, then: Destroyers.

Actually, I have found the same holds true against Destroyers, except I don't rely on the burning skills as much. Otherwise, there's not much in terms of difference that I have noticed from one campaign to another that has forced me to change my strategies or tactics. EotN is a bit more challenging because of the welcome upgrade to the mobs, but that's been pretty much it from my perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Recognizing a threat - then countering that threat, is fundamentally what this genre is about. Build-making just happens to be GW's way of doing this.

Actually, that is not what the RPG genre is, or ever was about - nor have I seen that to be the axiom for MMO's either. In terms of GW, yes that is one strategy that is commonly used, and shows why it is a fundemental flaw in the game - the game is easy if you use the right build, which is as simple and brainless as copying from wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The value of items (both the perceived value and the trade value) has more to do with its rarity rather than the number of bad players who have them. 14/15% unconditionals, for example, are both expensive and highly desired, even though anyone with enough money can get one (if they can find one for sale these days). Instead of circulating rare items only around the "elite", the "elite" are happy as long as the items remain rare and thus the prices remain high. So trading, which by itself does not make an item numerically more common, would not have much of an impact on either the trade value or the perceived value.

Without getting into a whole discussion about the economics of trade, et al., supply and demand is the main determining factor in the value of any item. An item will only remain rare and valuble so long as the supply does not outpace the demand. So long as their are farmers who increase the supply and sell them to those who want them, then the value and rarity of those items will decrease over time as the demand continues to be met. This will happen whether UB is in the game or not. If elite players want to maintain the status of these items (which seems to be the bigger point of contention here), then they must be prevented from being acquired by those who do not "deserve" them by not taking a balanced team through the area in which they can be acquired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanvak

The point with a skill is that it should not become "I don't want to use it because it change the way I play the game". That why UB should be tweak to stay powerfull but become a normal skill that can be included in a team build.

Actually, each additionnal Ursan is plus for a group, it replace any proffession in most team build. I think that it should not be the case. A balanced ursan will see group with one or two ursan and other think. we will see team with 1 UB, 1 wolf, 1 raven (those elite are all pve elite so should be on par with UB) and so on.

The real problem is that this transformation last forever or so. No other transformation has this potential (including raven). I keep thinking that this is the problem. pass the degen a -3 stackable with other degen. That will make ursan difficult to use without making it smashing power any less.

And the point is with builds is that they also should not become "I don't want to use this because it changes the way I play the game." Unfortunately, because of the flaws in the current system we have with GW, it is that way for many people and UB is their only other option. Also unfortunately, it is still a less than ideal choice in this case as you are still not able to continue playing your favorite build because of the skill replacement.

Sab · Feb 24, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

This is just a generalization of what you perceive players using UB to be - as the_jos pointed out. Quite frankly, there are probably many reasons why - including the fact that people actually do want to learn and use UB to do so, then go about getting Vanq or Guard with a "normal" build. With farming - isn't that kind of the idea to begin with? To find the most efficient build with the least chance of failure. Isn't that why botting is so successful - there were plenty of those prior to UB. Overall power is really pointless to this discussion - if we're talking about exploits, then a solo or dual team in an area that is not supposed to be designed for it is as much of an exploit as UB, regardless of the sum total of offensive damage either one can put out.

If they want to get better at the game, why would they be using Ursan in the first place? They would learn a whole lot more if they didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

If it's not, then why bother making *hard* mode?
Things like SF and HM were added to the game to give players something more to do after they finished one chapter and while they were waiting for the next. HM especially was created for those who felt the game up to that point was not challenging enough. Again, it gets back to how you want to enjoy the game.

Again, you can use that argument to demand or justify anything in the game. It's not a very strong argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Someone who exploits can gain an unfair advantage over someone who doesn't, but why should the one who doesn't exploit, care?
... how does Ebaying affect you personally?
Technically, UB is not an exploit - the skill is being used exactly how it was designed. In terms of Gold Farming and things like eBaying - that hurts the bottom line profitability of the developer and publisher, so actually falls outside of the in-game definition of "exploit." Personally speaking, again, people who eBay or play the game differently have thus far no bearing on my experience of the game or the satisfaction I get from playing it.

The stuff about the exploits is completely irrelevant. That bolded part is all that's needed.

I think you're playing GW as a single player game, and you're suggesting that everybody who shows off is somehow playing the game "for the wrong reasons." That's why you can display a title, that's why there are max title announcements, that's why you can see people winning Halls. People get certain titles for the knowledge that very few have the ability to achieve it. Similarly with items - do you think people get rare and expensive items to not show off? Perhaps you don't care much about others' gameplay, but I can assure you *a lot* of other people do, and they do not want new ways of shortcutting their achievements, EULA-breaking or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Actually, I have found the same holds true against Destroyers, except I don't rely on the burning skills as much. Otherwise, there's not much in terms of difference that I have noticed from one campaign to another that has forced me to change my strategies or tactics. EotN is a bit more challenging because of the welcome upgrade to the mobs, but that's been pretty much it from my perspective.

There are much more efficient ways of beating Destroyers than Fire Eles. My point still stands - there are no other builds which even approach the power of Ursan. It's a generic build that is on par - if not better - than any other build you can bring for practically any zone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Actually, that is not what the RPG genre is, or ever was about - nor have I seen that to be the axiom for MMO's either. In terms of GW, yes that is one strategy that is commonly used, and shows why it is a fundemental flaw in the game - the game is easy if you use the right build, which is as simple and brainless as copying from wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

I should have mentioned that I was talking about the skill system, and not the role-playing aspects of this game. Other games have different ways of killing things - e.g. with total reliance on execution, or reliance on luck, or just mindless button-mashing. In GW, generally speaking, you make builds that counter other builds. I fail to see how that constitutes an exploit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Without getting into a whole discussion about the economics of trade, et al., supply and demand is the main determining factor in the value of any item. An item will only remain rare and valuble so long as the supply does not outpace the demand. So long as their are farmers who increase the supply and sell them to those who want them, then the value and rarity of those items will decrease over time as the demand continues to be met. This will happen whether UB is in the game or not. If elite players want to maintain the status of these items (which seems to be the bigger point of contention here), then they must be prevented from being acquired by those who do not "deserve" them by not taking a balanced team through the area in which they can be acquired.

The status of items is linked to its rarity, I made this point earlier and gave an example. It's not about who has one, it's about how many there are.

The status of titles, however, is different. It is much harder to buy or sell titles than items, so its status is derived from difficulty rather than rarity. While it is still possible to "cheat" the title (by getting runs), the title itself is still respected as long as these "cheaters" remain relatively few. See the Champ title for example. Even though B-Spikers have farmed there way to Champ4-5, the majority have gotten it through legitimate means, and it still remains a respectable title (compared to Hero, for instance, where a huge portion of the HA population have scrubwayed their fame).

In short, if you introduce a new crutch for players who, without the crutch, cannot get the titles, then the titles loses its status.

Vazze · Feb 24, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I think I already posted in one of these threads, but it was along time ago and things did not change at all.
1) No point having skills and builds in a game if there is one build/skill which is better than all other. Simple right?
2) Elite areas are elite for a reason. Or don't call it elite then. Whats the point of having elite area if any noob can 1-2-3 through it easily? Call it ursan-noob area and admit that the game does not have elite area.

That said, I am happy that tank/nuke builds are not the only ones doing elite areas (they are even more boring than ursan) and that I don't have to spend hours to explain builds to newbs, I just tell them to run ursan in a "difficult" mission, however, it is obvious that unlike the other overpowered PvE skills, ursan is messing with the basic elements of the game (skill system/hierarchy)and it should be gone once and for all.

gerg-nad · Feb 25, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Do not nerf Ursan!

After reading much of the posts again, and then started skipping some (Sab and Hanok Odbrook - point and counterpoint battle), I decided to post again, as many did not comment on my post (may have been too matter of fact).

I believe most of the folks that are posting are generally good and regular players, otherwise why would they care and post. GW is designed as team game, but has accomodated incomplete teams with Henches and then Heros. Folks that complete the game and only play with Henches and Heros I think are missing the interaction portion of the game and may want to consider pure single player game as GW is really designed as a team game.

I like to do mission, quest, etc. as effectively and as efficient (as fast) as possible which for a multiple class team using no PvE skills can be accomplished, but take preparation time to make sure the team has good synergy and the right skills. This preparation is especially important in elite areas as they are much less forgiving. We are fortunate that many people have published their team builds to take advantage of and speed the process and establish expectation. In PUG groups this preparation time is often zero, so the mission or quest has to be very forgiving or it may be a struggle for the team or a complete wipe.

This preparation time most people have little patience for and occationally can lead to more time than the actual mission. Also with 1000s of skills and no true quantitative way of evaluating the effectiveness of a single build especially in combination with the other team builds makes this process very complex and mostly qualitative. So Ursan has cut this down to nearly nothing and has made elite areas accessable to all that have not invested a lot of time testing and researching skills and builds.

So as someone said to me if you want to play the game without PvE skills or specifically Ursan, you can. I very much like playing in teams where complementary skills, communication, and cooperation between players is required (a nonursan team). That being said, I do not want Ursan to be nerfed as it has open up more of the game to my guildies and other players. Also since I have invested time into the grinding of points I do not this to be for not. Most of the titles in GW are grinds, cartargraphy, Factions, drunkard, treasure, Sunspear and Lightbringers where you mostly have to put in time to get it accomplished. There is no title for accomplished and beating elite areas, you get a monument is all. I have not focused on titles because they seemed like grinds and offer little both in terms of rewards and team formation and play. Also titles are mostly character based, and for me variety and flexibility are fun, which is why I play almost all the character classes regularly.

Background: I play all the classes, I have 10 toons. All but one has finished all 3 chapters and more 7 of 10 EotN. I have played all the elite areas regularly with balance teams prior to EotN. I also like to play with real people otherwise I should be playing a single player game not a MORPG. I have so many builds that I have shameless stole or built that I have a system and structure to keep track of all of them. So what I am trying to describe is that I am not new to the game and play regularly. BTW playing with real people you can lean much more about the game than playing alone with H&H. . I enjoy the variety the game offers, but I also enjoy doing an area fast and effeciently. All my charaters are maxed for money and my inventory is always full.

Trub · Feb 25, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I have seen many of the posters in this thread stress the point of time, and lewt. (Go thru ELITE areas faster, more efficiently??)
This is very upsetting, for the fact that GW is a game, to be fun...to release a little stress from the days work.
GW offers a whole range of professions, skill set ups, and team possibilities.
Don't give me that "Well, I don't have a guild, my friends list is empty"
"I don't have enough time to play alot"..ect.
If you have been playing long enough to make it to an ELITE area...you have hooked up with a few people along the way.
I don't like the idea of the Ursan Blessing for the simple fact...it is too simple.
It doesn't give the player an experience of their PROFESSION.
It doesn't offer a chance to utilize secondary skill experimentation.
It doesn't offer balance to a team.
It IS hack, slash, aggro, slash....and collect your lewt, and aggro some more.
The monks are watching Oprah, and sipping mountain dew.
And, before you say something like: "Oh, is your E-peen hurt Trubby?"
No. That isn't it either.
I bought GW for the challenge, the beauty, and the people to be seen.
I intend to use my skill bars to their fullest, for the good of my team..and the FUN of coming up with something different to play...at least once a week..

So, to end this rambling post of mine:
Don't nerf the bear...(or any PvE only skills.)
Just make it playable in the area it was created for- EOTN.
*hugz*

Carboplatin · Feb 25, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

i miss playing alot of builds. Ursan does need a little fix or pretty soon 90% of the players will end up using a warrior or para ursan. Which will reduce the game to 2 monks + 5 ursans for any zone.

gerg-nad · Feb 25, 2008, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

I have seen many of the posters in this thread stress the point of time, and lewt. (Go thru ELITE areas faster, more efficiently??)
This is very upsetting, for the fact that GW is a game, to be fun...to release a little stress from the days work.
GW offers a whole range of professions, skill set ups, and team possibilities.
Don't give me that "Well, I don't have a guild, my friends list is empty"
"I don't have enough time to play alot"..ect.
If you have been playing long enough to make it to an ELITE area...you have hooked up with a few people along the way.
I don't like the idea of the Ursan Blessing for the simple fact...it is too simple.
It doesn't give the player an experience of their PROFESSION.
It doesn't offer a chance to utilize secondary skill experimentation.
It doesn't offer balance to a team.
It IS hack, slash, aggro, slash....and collect your lewt, and aggro some more.
The monks are watching Oprah, and sipping mountain dew.
And, before you say something like: "Oh, is your E-peen hurt Trubby?"
No. That isn't it either.
I bought GW for the challenge, the beauty, and the people to be seen.
I intend to use my skill bars to their fullest, for the good of my team..and the FUN of coming up with something different to play...at least once a week..

So, to end this rambling post of mine:
Don't nerf the bear...(or any PvE only skills.)
Just make it playable in the area it was created for- EOTN.
*hugz*

I like the points here, many people have different styles of plan and are at different maturity of the game. It is a game after all, and the main focus is fun. I have fun with Ursan and I have fun with a good team build. I do regularly different elite areas with real people and what keep the game fresh for me, a more mature player, is the team dynamics and interaction. For others it may experimenting with builds, for other its just fun killing things, and for other its the story and the all the quests associated with enriching the story. I know when I started playing GW, before NF, but after Faction came out, I wondered if I should get other chapters and which, I eventually got them all.

I do think that although it has improved, the team formation and management could be improved. Even right now something as simple as reordering players should be easier than kick and add back and rotate through the list (it should be simply drag and drop). But getting into teams with the complimentary skills is the difficult problem that I hope GW2 improves.

Trub · Feb 25, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

*nods*
I agree also with your points.
So..I can only gain one conclusion from what I have explored on this thread.

(NOT a full comparison, but it is all we have other than sifting thru the QQ and flame threads.)

UB was an idea that was originaly developed to placate the weaker player base, so they could see the areas they could strive for, and gain higher end items, titles, and armors within EOTN.
Then, greed took over.
Some players decided it was an easy way to get more lewt, with less time.
(Yes, greed is VERY human.)
The fun was actually lost, when all the other UB players DID reach high end areas...and were discriminated against because their title tracks were not high enough...or they weren't the right profession to be in the team.

(Yes, the pick and choose for UB teams in ELITE areas are prevelant because of armor, energy ect....it's not just mesmer and paragon hate anymore.)

You must agree, this is a major problem for many players.
It isn't as simple as saying: "If you don't like it, don't use it."
My guild refuses to use UB, because we gain respect in a game yes, for playing as a well balanced team.
(We DO use consumables upon occasion to assist new members, in HM ONLY.)
NOT using UB to kill as a pack of single bears, with only the monks using the skills of their class.
Again, I see the reason UB was implemented, but I also see where a cap should be set to what areas it should be used in.